Hi,

I am looking for some comparisons of these two dry radiant systems. It is new construction, and I have been planning to use Warmboard, but my GC's hvac guy has been using Viega. I am under no obligation to use his hvac guy.

Anybody here use the Viega? Pros and Cons between these two systems?


thanks in advance

There is no comparison, IMHO.

the viega will need 30-40 degree higher temps to do what the warmboard does, it takes longer to install, and it's not that much cheaper in material cost once you add in the subfloor.

Actually the output of warmboard and CP or QT are pretty comparable. the larger pipe of the warmboard carrys more btu's but the 12" spacing negates this difference.

Also sheet aluminum does have nearly as good output as extruded aluminum. If you want a radiant floor that truly performs and have the lowest water temp possible try the Raupanel by Rehau.

meant to say does not have nearly as good output (did not know how to edit)

comparable?

Wood Floor, 20 BTUs/sq ft.

QT: 130 Degrees
Warmboard at a ten degree drop: 90 Degrees.
95 at a twenty.

What's comparable about that?

Warmboard is using heavy gauge aluminum, not sheet aluminum.

Raupanel is close to warmboard and is comparable; Quiktrak/climate panel are NOT.

Rob,

thanks for the follow up on Michaels claims that the CP is comparable. I was perplexed as to how that could be. I have a sample of the CP and of the Warmboard and the CP is not in the same league.

Michael - Please expand on your assertions that Raupanel is better than Warmboard. According to the data on their websites, Warmboard requires 98 degree mean water temp to get 20BTU/hr/sqft with a flooring R value of 1.0. Raupanel with 8 inch tube spacing requires 112 degree mean water temp and with 6 inch spacing, it requires 105 degree mean water temp. I agree that with 6 inch spacing it is pretty close, but I would need twice the amount of pex tubing and it would seem more labor too. I am assuming the data on each website is correct and it is an apples to apples comparison, but you never know. I am open to any reasonable explanations as to why it is better and have not yet started construction, so I want to hear all sides now, not later.

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff - NJ:
Rob,

thanks for the follow up on Michaels claims that the CP is comparable. I was perplexed as to how that could be. I have a sample of the CP and of the Warmboard and the CP is not in the same league.

Michael - Please expand on your assertions that Raupanel is better than Warmboard. According to the data on their websites, Warmboard requires 98 degree mean water temp to get 20BTU/hr/sqft with a flooring R value of 1.0. Raupanel with 8 inch tube spacing requires 112 degree mean water temp and with 6 inch spacing, it requires 105 degree mean water temp. I agree that with 6 inch spacing it is pretty close, but I would need twice the amount of pex tubing and it would seem more labor too. I am assuming the data on each website is correct and it is an apples to apples comparison, but you never know. I am open to any reasonable explanations as to why it is better and have not yet started construction, so I want to hear all sides now, not later.

thanks

Hi Jeff,

I'm sure you've made a decision by now and you are living in your nice toasty home.

SO what did you decide - and why?

Are you happy? WOuld you have done it any differently?

THANKS!

Ben

I just found this thread and was hoping that somebody could give me some advice.

I'm just starting a whole house renovation of a 1924 bungalow that will include adding a 2nd story with master suite. Hydronic floor heat is an essential ingredient of the renovation.

The structural engineer says that a Gypcrete installation will require significant structural modifications to support the weight. Thus I am looking for the best solution to accomplish the following:

Ground floor: Add 2 zone hydronic floor heat to the existing floorplan (1100 sf). House is craftsman style with wooden stick-frame construction. Existing hardwood floors will be replaced. Subfloor will most likely stay unless found damaged.

2nd Floor: New construction (1000 sf) including sub-floor with hydronic floor heat most likely with two zones with independent control (bathroom + rest of floor).


Basement (500 sf): Unless foundation requires extensive modification, baseboard radiators will probably be used here. There is limited ceiling clearance so I can't really go higher with the floor, thus the radiators.

The gas forced air furnace will be replaced with either a boiler or tankless water heater(s) for providing hot potable water and hydronic heat.

Ground floor and 2nd floor will have primarily engineered wood floors.

I have talked to two heating contactors. One only has done Gypcrete and below-floor systems. The other has experience with Roth Panels and recommends them.

My architect is recommending Viega panels. I've seen comments on this board about Warmboard, Raupanel and other above floor systems but not much about Roth panels.

1. Based on the house variables (original subfloor, new subfloor and no subfloor (basement), which system(s) do you recommend for heating my house?

2. What kind of thermal efficiency do Roth panels have compared to Warmboard, Raupanel and Viega?

3. How do the installed costs compare?

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and experience.

cab0419

Hold the phone a second. Warmboard is approx 22 ga. and so is QT. You can peel WB's aluminum off if you wanted to. Work it with a router a bit and you will see it's not that thick. Cooler water temps due to the large amount of aluminum on WB on top of the wood layer okay but if QT decided to put the aluminum on top then the race is on. JB

I think you'll find they are not the same thickness if you really check it out. visually the differences are not necessarily obvious.

you're right though; if quik trak put it on top, and gave it a real tubing groove, the "race would be on".

they haven't, of course, and won't. I wish they would, but I understand it's a tough engineering issue with a 1/2" profile panel. Raupanel solved it by making the whole panel aluminum, no wood. That also raises the price. tough stuff!

Hi Jeff….
For what’s its worth I will throw my 50 cents in

I am building a new home in NJ and did a fair amount of research last year on these 2 products…. Even met with the Viega rep (nice guy)
At the end of the day I felt that WB was not only a better product, it also offered me more consistent temps about 20 degree’s lower.
I’m a geothermal guy

The icing on the cake….
Even with having my system being build by NRT, shipped to me, installed by my plumber…. It was cheaper…
yes, a cost savings using my first choice

Good luck

jh

I am planning on building a house and have looked into the different above floor systems for radiant floor heating. I've also spoken to Warmboard at length. It is their position that their product adds about 10% more efficiency to a radiant floor system, thus realizing approximately a 45 - 50% increase in efficiency over forced air. I see one major advantage to warmboard over the other products, surface area.

First, after working in heavy aircraft manufacturing, the alum. on warmboard is sheet. The gauge is the simply the thickness. That being said, the major advantage I see to warmboard is not in installation or savings on materials (let's face it, the stuff is expensive!) but I think, and I'm not a engineer or HVAC contractor, is comfort. Since warmboard uses a continuous piece of alum. to conduct heat with, you realize a boarder surface area with fewer gaps. For a 4x8 ft. sheet, you get a full 32 ft/sq area that conducts heat. This means that you realize almost one continuous heated surface form wall to wall with only minute gaps v. other systems where you have significant gaps in the conductive surface. I.E. the alum. You then have more surface area to spread the heat out and I would believe that you will see cooler return water temps to the boiler with warmboard as more heat is dispursed over a greater surface area when supply water temp is the same between the different installations. I have not seen any data, just a hunch.

Now, is it worth it. I'm still undecided. We have not finalized the design so I don't have a quote on the subfloor installation and materials plus radiant installation v. warmboard and associated labor. But if I can install warmboard and use carpet, the sale is getting closer to be complete.

Comments?

greater surface area.. and the conductivity to deliver that heat to the whole surface area, which is partly a function of the aluminum thickness.. is why the water temperatures for that product are so low. You're on the right track there but aluminum thickness does matter.

"Cooler return temps" just means "better output at the same flow rate"... it's not really a relevant measure by itself.

for Comfort, that's a long, involved, twisted conversation. with carpet you are unlikely to notice striping with any appropriate on center installation, including those that are less conductive but much tighter on centers like climate panel. You are likely to be ABLE to achieve a similar comfort with any panel that can meet the load and that is installed/designed properly: how easy it is to achieve, and how efficiently it can be achieved, are variables affected by panel output... along with whether or not you hit water temperature and output requirements for your particular system.

I would again ask for a comparison of WarmBoard with Roth panels. Both of them provide a continuous sheet of aluminum to conduct and radiate heat, but one radiant heating contractor I contacted estimated that the installed cost with Roth panels would be about 75% of that of WarmBoard. I am sure that those marketing WarmBoard will say that the WarmBoard's aluminum sheet is thicker, but is it really worth paying the extra price? Moreover, WarmBoard is installed before the interior framing goes in whereas Roth Panels can be installed at a later stage. This exposes those expensive WarmBoard panels to more of a risk that some framer or other contractor will damage them. What are the disadvantages to Roth panels?

Bob

it's foam, so installing nailed wood floor over it requires sleepers, which also requires ripping all the panels in half.

it also requires you to purchase a subfloor you don't need with warmboard.

I would consider warmboard a heck of a lot more durable than roth if jobsite damage is an issue, but that's not really a concern. warmboard is tough stuff and roth is installed late enough to deal with what it needs to deal with.

performance will be similar though, definitely. Roth is a fine product from an output perspective.