We're in the middle of designing a 4000 square-foot home here in Jackson, Wyoming. We're sold on radiant floor heating, but are worried about cost. The engineer our architect set us up with said it would be $12-14 per square foot. Wow. $50,000 for the heating system in our house? Does this sound right? (We haven't actually talked to any local contractors yet; we'll be putting the house up for competitive bid.) What factors might make a system cost more or less than this? I'll post another more specific question about materials (specifically sub-floor, concrete, thermaboard, etc...)

It all depends on what type of house you are building, and what type of system you are getting. Systems are all over the map as far as price goes.

Details on your house? Someone can give you ideas on system style from there.

I see you are sheepish about the cost. The Architect may be just giving you the high end price. There are alot of products and above all methods to do the radiant that will make costs go all over the board.

When you get a good heat loss calc done and some proposals and system specifics, shoot em on the board here methods not costs the pros here can at least steer you to the better package and weed out the bad ones for your application.

While you are sold on radiant please bear in mind that although the initial cost is higher than traditional Hot Air,Dry air, Forced air what ever you want to call it. It is the COMFORT of RADIANT HEAT and Thermal Efficiency that will keep you satisfied in your choice of radiant heat.

Above all do not sacrafice yourself to the DIY internet packages to get what you want for what you are willing to spend. The old saying "you get what you pay for" comes into play here.

I have nothing to gain from trying to sway you to the Radiant heat I'm just a homeowner with radiant, and I think no one should be with out it. When done PROPERLY it will last for decades and give you happiness.
Gordy


[This message has been edited by Gordon Kaske (edited 02-11-2005).]

The cost for a radiant heating system is very much a function of how it will be integrated into the home.

For example, just adding tubes into the basement slab is peanuts. The PEX is relatively inexpensive and basements that size can be finished (with the right planning) by 2-3 guys in a day or two. 4" basement slabs typically have 1/2" tubing on 12" centers that is in 250-300 feet long loops.

So, some people simply cast the PEX in place and revisit the installation of a radiant heating system later as usage patterns and wallet contents dictate - just leave enough room for a mechanical room, vent, and ensure that the PEX pattern is designed by an expert, not some DIY company.

What I would do is sit down with your spouse and talk about goals. Ultimately, what do you want to achieve with this home, and why? What you will find is that the marginal cost of radiant heating over other options like hot air easily falls into the "extras" budget. I have heard of people spending more money on a custom built chimney than their radiant floor heating system...

If the house isn't built yet, consider casting the tube into whatever concrete you have while using Warmboard everywhere else. By all accounts Warmboard is expensive and heavy, but it gets the job done and is very quick to install. Ultimately, the labor savings will probably pay for the marginal cost of using the stuff. The only downside is that your architect has to plant the Warmboard into the project... which can get expensive.

When I was a first-year plumbing apprentice, my parents took us all on a western vacation adventure to Yellowstone. Along the way, we stopped in Jackson Hole (same place?). I was awed by the raw beauty of the area and called all of the local mechanical contractors to inquire about a job. No one was hiring, so I came back east. One of those crossroads in life without a turn!

At any rate, 50K for a 4,000 sq. ft. hydronic radiant system is a bargain-basement price if it's one of the better designs incorporating lowest delivery temperatures and high-efficiency equipment. Like anything else, you'll get what you pay for.

If the budget is wearing thin, you might consider sweat equity and working with the hydronics expert to determine how much sweat you're willing to contribute. We've had great success with motivated homeowners who are willing to help.

Another alternative, is to save the radiant for key areas: bathroom floors (tile); kitchen floor; any tiled areas; and anywhere a concrete slab on, or at, grade will be poured. Friends don't let friends pour concrete without tube being installed!

As mentioned previously, a good-quality heat loss calculation is the key ingredient and foundation upon which great radiant systems are built. Your hydronics contractor, if he's qualified, is the best candidate for this task. They'll know, from experience, not only what to look for in the design phase, but how to protect the system's design (and ultimate performance) during construction.

We're seeing more failed systems each year where sonmeone else performed the heat loss calculations/system design and a mechanical contractor with little or no real-world radiant experience thought there was nothing more complicated than installing the tubing to ensure performance. It costs twice as much to fix botched systems than it does to do one properly from the start. The last consultation/re-design/re-installation radiant rescue we performed cost more than the $-tag you've mentioned.

Communication between you and the radiant contractor should be one-to-one with no interference or third party influence. Once you have decided what you want, the radiant contractor needs to be able to communicate with the other trades to keep them informed regarding specific requirements that work best with the particular installation methods being employed.

Sounds complicated, but it's really second nature stuff for those of us with proper training. Both this site and heatinghelp.com have excellent contractor referral links. If you've found a specific product line you feel comfortable about, they often have contractor referral lists too. Most importantly, the interview process with contractors should lead you to one you feel is knowledgible and reliable. In all likelyhood, their price will not be the low bid, but it will be the best bargain.

Well, ...Expensive IS expensive,....
Buh Cheap.....Cheap is Not Cheap!...
You have some variables to deal with,it would be best to not only blindly trust the engineer or architect buh hand over all your money.
*~/ sorry, i say things different.
my best advise is to get a second opinion,and also make sure you are comparing apples to apples .
Some systems can have lots of quality parts and yet what you may end up with is a system of very dubious qualities, indeed...there are many quality installers who have absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with any organizations and it may shock you to hear this, thier contributions are snapped up with never a thank you.nice work.you ve done alot for the furthering of understanding in the industry. no instead GC's Home owners and other contractors look at them like they have horns and say .."YOU,...did THIS?"
i dont say that you cannot find a professional i simply suggest that there are many levels of heating systems and many qualities, before you spend your money you get a picture of their work and take the time to speak with the owner of the system.
Your General Contractor may have a prefered Mechanical Contractor he may be just the guy for your job. even so, get a second opinion .some contractors are comfortable with the contractor they work with on a day to day basis...scheduling and work flow is something he can count on being there.he KNOWS the quality of work and may even be able to suggest a system that has areas that can be upgraded over time. yah there are alot of great products out there buh,...are these systems allowing for improvement in the future or are they the be all end all.
Find some one who looks to the future,someone you feel you is considerate of your finacial LONG TERM comfort. Your health is important,are you getting an entire system or a bunch of chopped up things with little to no interoperability ,communication or control stradgey. For the most part ,there are many levels of controls and products some go into the thousands of dollars yet these controls preform a variety of functions...
so, confused yet ?...There is alot to consider ....Should you chose a professional here , he may know of a general Contractor in your area that he likes to work with and does excellent quality workmanship and is considerate, trustworthy and gets the work done in a timely fashion. Good luck.