The combustion blower went south on my Munchkin too. The culpret was water coming into the intake pipe during a wind driven rain storm. Unfortunately, on the T80M, they route the air intake directly over the motor. When water hits the motor, sparks fly. The fix is to install a "roof" or shield over the motor, or add elbows to the intake tee outside, as I did to prevent water from entering the intake piping.
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Originally posted by DCaparel: I am new to boilers of all kinds. The Munckin I have is just three years old and the combustion blower assembly went bad. $600.00 plus later should fix it. I hope I do not have any other type repairs. Warranty is only one year on this part and it is truly a Mfging error not usage. I am currently trying to get some satisfaction for replacement but have had no success yet.
<BillMichigan>
Posted
Maybee your Boiler is Plugged If you have old heat regesters they may plug the boiler up, I had the same problem I took the pump off and got an air compresser and CLR I blew the clr threw the boiler IN lost of back dirt came out Works fine now Hope this might help...
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Originally posted by greenmountain: We live in VT, and last month had a Munchkin 140M natural gas boiler installed. Since then, we've had an ongoing problem with the unit going into short periods of loud vibrations, lasting 40-50 seconds, with the whole unit vibrating like an old-fashioned hotel massage bed. Soemtimes it happens every 5 minutes or so, for an hour or more on end; other times it's fine for a few days. Our heating contractor -- who we found on the mfgr's website and is "vision certified -- has been out to our home twice in last 2 weeks. He says it has something to do with the fuel / oxygen mix, and tried adjusting fuel-oxygen mix screw ("throttle?"). But after he left, the the vibrations came back, They came back out today, and tried adjusting it some more, but it came back. Apparently when it's adjusted with the flame color not pure blue (i.e, w/ some orange) the vibrations doesn't occur, but when the flame looks right (nice and blue), the vibrations happen. Our contractor says he's installed many of these units in propane applications w/ no problem, but that this is only their 2nd NG installation and the other also has this vibration problem. Does anyone have any experience with this problem?
<AWest>
Posted
I have the Munchkin 140M Boiler This unit is less than a year and a half old and the hard plastic blower wheel has flown apart. This wheel is hard and brittle, and when it came apart it ruined the motor. This is a Manufacturing flaw and should be warrantied, but I am told it is not!!!!!!!! ( some warranty )
<Guest>
Posted
Contact the factory. Once again, the blower warranty should be 3 years as they had issues with the first go-round.
Originally posted by greenmountain: We live in VT, and last month had a Munchkin 140M natural gas boiler installed. Since then, we've had an ongoing problem with the unit going into short periods of loud vibrations, lasting 40-50 seconds, with the whole unit vibrating like an old-fashioned hotel massage bed. Soemtimes it happens every 5 minutes or so, for an hour or more on end; other times it's fine for a few days. Our heating contractor -- who we found on the mfgr's website and is "vision certified -- has been out to our home twice in last 2 weeks. He says it has something to do with the fuel / oxygen mix, and tried adjusting fuel-oxygen mix screw ("throttle?"). But after he left, the the vibrations came back, They came back out today, and tried adjusting it some more, but it came back. Apparently when it's adjusted with the flame color not pure blue (i.e, w/ some orange) the vibrations doesn't occur, but when the flame looks right (nice and blue), the vibrations happen. Our contractor says he's installed many of these units in propane applications w/ no problem, but that this is only their 2nd NG installation and the other also has this vibration problem. Does anyone have any experience with this problem?
I have had excessive vibration problems with my Munchkin 140M LP gas boiler since it was installed in the Fall of 2004. The vibrations last about 12 to 15 seconds and occur whenever the unit starts up after being off for a few hours. Although I contacted the factory many times, they were unable to tell me or the gas company techs that I've hired how to fix the problem. The factory will not send a representative to my home to check out the unit and this has caused me to spend an incredible amount of time and money seeking a solution. I will say that - except for the occasional severe vibration, the unit has performed well with high efficiency and plenty of heat and hot water.
I had the vibrating problem and contacted the company that I bought the Munchkin 140m from. They had heard of the problem and had me contact Heat Transfer products and verify what to adjust. It was a gas valve adjustment. If the adjustment does not correct the problem, then the gas valve will have to be replaced. In the diagram for the Munchkin Honeywell Gas Valve is a star (torx) screw. It is the one that says to to remove the screw and make any adjustment. They told me to adjust this 1/8 to 1/4 turn clockwise. They also told me that this adjustment should be made with a tool to check the exhaust gas. I adjusted mine 1/8 turn and it made an improvement. 1/4 turn was the solution for me.
I can relate to your problem and am glad to hear that a minor gas valve adjustment solved it in your situation. However, I've has similar situations with other negative pressure gas valve systems such as Polaris and the Lennox Complete heat system tha were the result of problems with the gas pressure regulator at the main gas meter. I went to extremes as far as replacing equipment before I discovered that the regualtors were setting up a harmonic that caused very annoying vibrations which seemed to eminate from the boiler but were really from the regulator. While the gas company would not sanction it, cotton wadding over the regulator vent screen stopped all the problems. Other fixes included increasing the diameter and lenght of the drop leg on the gas line at the boiler and in at least one situation installing a Maxitrol regulator upstream of the boiler to smooth out the gas flow before it got to the negative pressure valve. I would not be hastey to blame the problem on the boiler as I suspect the problem has always been there but is not recognized in systems with a conventional gas valve .
Originally posted by Super: Okay, I replaced a 1934 coal converted gas hog, with a 199M. It might as well be a commercial unit, because of the Victorian house,(old and cold), it now heats. I have 13 zones, yes 13 pumps and thermostats. You talk about saving gas, I was running close to $900 a month to heat this barn.
My question is about a similar situation. I own a 6500 sq ft two story uninsulated house. Last winter the natural gas bills reached $1200 per month. The furnace is an old Pennco WA boiler (natural gas) converted from steam to hot water output. There is just one zone. Its input BTU rating is 332,000 and output is 268,800. I don't currently use it to heat my faucet water, but it could eventually replace two 40 gallon hot water heaters in addition to heating the home.
Will the Munchkin 199 heat this type of home (with a high heat loss), or should I consider the 399?
I have 4 munchkin boilers. I have gone through six fans in 20 months. I have the the diverter plates and have reducted the intake away from the exaust. They also said the fans had been redesigned and the new ones were much better. At least two of the new and improved fans have failed. The Munchkin Rep told me that it would take Munchkin 3 months to determine if it was waranty or not when we replaced the fan in less than a year from replacing it the first time. This is a fan the Munchkin rep came out and did it himself, as he felt we had installed something wrong. Based on Munchkins response to date they deny there is any problem with the fan motor. Curously is is the only part of the boiler with less than 3 years warranty.
My installer tells me that Weil Mclain uses the same fan but mounts the motor shaft in a vertical position. He has not replaced any of them so far. Perhaps the motor installed in the Munchkin is only to be installed in the vertical position. If that is the case the Munchkin was improperly designed. I feel for anyone that only has one of these in their home. You have a lot of cold nights and frozen pipes in your future.
We had a 140M LP boiler installed in our new home fall 2003. We live in northern MN. I did my research and felt good about our decision to go with the munchkin. All of your postings sound so familiar. F10 & F9 codes and vibration. My certified installer has made countless repairs. These ranged from rerouting the gas lines so that I have a 3/4" loop basically feeding the unit with a oversized drip leg at the unit, an updated controll board, a new ignitor wire and of course the standard CO/CO2 adjustments using a manometer, cleaning the flame rod etc... The propane company who inspected and reinspected regulators for leaks and accurate delivery pressures for what the "fussy" munchkin seems to need. 2003 & 2004 heating seasons were miserable, F10 or F9 shutdowns nightly and daily. I looked for patterns with weather, when I thought I found one, I would have a shutdown that would disprove them. The rerouting of the gas lines at the end of the 2004 heating season was the most productive repair to date. The unit has ran flawless, other than vibrating, for 2005 until this month, Dec, and now I have had two F10 shutdowns in two weeks. I immediatley cleaned the flame rod after the first F10 two weeks ago. The only good thing I can say about the vibration is that it tells us the unit is working. I did get some tips from a couple of your postings that I don't think we've tried. These are: Adjusting the hi-lo fire adjustment screw above the throttle screw to remedy the vibration and the cotton over the regulator vent. Maybe the gas routing trick done on ours will help one of you. But the point is we're all getting run around here. At first we thought our installer was gaffing us off, but I believe now, Heat Transfer Products are really the ones at fault here. This product is flat out not reliable. I feel terrible for the person who has the vacation home. We have contacted Heat Transfer ourselves, I got some generic "form letter" email responses and referred to the munchkin supplier in our area. Is'nt that like the Pharmacist telling you to ask the stock clerk about your prescription?! We feel used and after thousands of dollars and 3 heating seasons of issues with the munchkin boiler we feel entitled to some type of compensation. Does anyone else feel the way we do?
I've been having a terrible time with a munchkin boiler. it is exactly 4 years old. the pressure switch went and caused the system to fail. We replaced the switch (250 dollars) and it failed. Then they upgraded the whole system (cost to me 7 hours labor 420 dollars). Now it heats, but the VIBRATIONS are terrible. Some days it's like a fog horn, vibrating all of the radiators up to the 2nd floor and repeating every hour or so. Other days it might do it once or twice. It is awful being awakened in the middle of the night with this noise. It is a form of torture. I've had repair people here over and over and over again. I've been having trouble since early November. I am going to go insane with this. They are now going to come with a new tech to see if he can do anything about this.
Posts: 4 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: 19 January 2006
This has me worried. I'm a small P & H contractor in W. MD and have an ideal applicatiom for the 80M Munchkin and the Superstor domestic HWH.How about something good about the systems?
Lots of people out there without problems not posting, from what I can see, but Munchkin also is not the only game in town. Practically every manufacturer has a mod-con option these days. See what your local peers may be using (and what the supply houses have parts for).
Originally posted by NRT.Rob: Lots of people out there without problems not posting, from what I can see, but Munchkin also is not the only game in town. Practically every manufacturer has a mod-con option these days. See what your local peers may be using (and what the supply houses have parts for).
Thanks for the reply. Two local supply houses have the Munchkin available. Course all the salesmen can do is praise them. I'll do a little more digging at this months master plumber meeting. Thanks, Nelson
Here's my 2nd posting on my Munchkin boiler. Two different technicians have taken the boiler apart, cleaned it, and calibrated it. It had an enormous buildup of very hard black sandlike particles in the combustion chamber which has clogged the drain. To make a long story short, in spite of hours of cleaning and work on the boiler, it STILL lets out a very loud, long vibration which now is literally shaking my floors. The problem is worse, they don't seem to know how to repair it. The one tech told me that water had built up inside the combustion chamber half way up the burner and that there was also water droplets all the way into the back of the burner. After he dried all of that out, he thought it would solve the problem. But it hasn't. :-(
Posts: 4 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: 19 January 2006
I just read alot of the postings on munchkins vibrating, you must service these units on an annual basis. Also they "must" be set up properly with a combustion analyzer and install verified for proper venting. Regular cleaning of condensate trap and heat exchanger during annual service will hopefully prevent the very small trap from plugging up. Make sure the combustion is set up properly!!
To Reedwright: Yes, my Munchkin WAS serviced faithfully every year. The black deposit accumulated within several days of a prior cleaning. Yes it WAS also calibrated by a 'vision qualified' technician. They now seem not to know how to repair it and are not answer my calls :-(.
Posts: 4 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: 19 January 2006
I've sold literally hundreds of Munchkins, and yes I've had issues, but not like you are seeing. Sorry to hear that.
Ok, if your heat exchanger is flooding, your boiler is not draining properly. Is it on blocks? This is really the best/only way to install them. This is also pretty much the only thing that would cause a flooded hx. This may also be contributing to the howling you are hearing.
Black deposits in the boiler are NOT caused by the boiler itself. Pretty much impossible. This has to be caused by either bad gas, or bad combustion setup, "qualified" tech or not. Is this by chance LP?
What size pump is on the boiler? Is it piped correctly (primary/secondary)?
